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By feejleap
#8751
Someone should implement a website like creativity-pool but base it on wiki technology, like Wikipedia. That would encourage the same spirit of creativity that this website enables but add to it a spirit of collaboration. Multiple users could contribute to artices about new theories, ideas, opinions, etc. It would be pretty cool.
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By Steve
#8805
feejleap wrote:Someone should implement a website like creativity-pool but base it on wiki technology, like Wikipedia. That would encourage the same spirit of creativity that this website enables but add to it a spirit of collaboration. Multiple users could contribute to artices about new theories, ideas, opinions, etc. It would be pretty cool.

Why wouldn't that be possible here? :-?
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By Keith
#9007
Yeah, I agree with Steve on this one... But I can see where you're coming from feejleap. This site is a little cluttered and slightly confusing... but thats web design for you, always a pain in the rear to get it right ;)

For example, my site is based on blog software for its content management, the "pool" seems more database driven (WAY more powerful) and wiki's in gereral are extremely lite and fast.

In other words, you get the "ideas" and comments, but no swoosh "hot-or-not" voting system and neat features that enhance your experience... hehehe, guess it just depends on what the 'focus' should be eh?

Cheers!
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By Steve
#9010
Keith wrote:Yeah, I agree with Steve on this one... But I can see where you're coming from feejleap. This site is a little cluttered and slightly confusing... but thats web design for you, always a pain in the rear to get it right ;)

For example, my site is based on blog software for its content management, the "pool" seems more database driven (WAY more powerful) and wiki's in gereral are extremely lite and fast.

In other words, you get the "ideas" and comments, but no swoosh "hot-or-not" voting system and neat features that enhance your experience... hehehe, guess it just depends on what the 'focus' should be eh?

Cheers!

What feejleap doesn't seem to understand is that sites like Wikipedia don't just happen because of what others do, but because of what you contribute. So all it basically needs is a couple of people and the spirit of collaboration. You can already contribute to the various threads and add articles about new theories and ideas - if enough people do that, the Pool will evolve and grow, based on user demand. It's all really that simple.
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By Keith
#9011
Amen Steve! :-D

But to add to the 'wiki experience', vandalism is also real problem. Someone needs to clean up that mess... and I am sure neither Steve or his moderators want to deal with something that would be THAT huge.

Luckily for us Wikipedia can handle that much fixing :)

But strangly, their seems to be a bit of spam in these forums. I guess when the pool is this big it's hard to get rid of it all... darn kids!

But I don't want to discourage you feejleap. I highly recommend taking a look at Free Open Source Wiki's and opening your own site. A good place to start looking is at:
http://opensourcecms.com/
And take a gander at their "wiki" section in the toolbar.

Cheers!
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By Steve
#9012
Keith wrote:But strangly, their seems to be a bit of spam in these forums. I guess when the pool is this big it's hard to get rid of it all... darn kids!

Well, in fact there are no moderators, it's only me running this place. That's why it struck me slightly odd to suggest a big contribution system, when so far nobody has even offered a hand on the small scale. No problem with it at all, just surprised me a bit. ;-) As for the spam, that indeed is a software problem. Ideally, there should be a system to report bad posts (spam, rudeness, etc.) but I have always waited for the new version of the forum software to come out, which has now been promised for the last 2-3 years. O:-)
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By Keith
#9016
I hear good things about YaBB and phpBB... but I'd assume porting all this over to a new forums software package would make anyones head hurt. !+)

http://www.yabbforum.com/
http://www.phpbb.com/

And I know how you feel about not having any moderators, I have the same issue... hehehe, at least you have a user base of some sorts to work with... I should just start volunteering here. ;)

My site is still in "construction" phase. Hmm... I should start a new thread about the different types of idea sites online. Have you ever checked out Halfbakery.com?

Exciting times indeed,
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By Keith
#9017
wait... this is a phpBB ... *chuckles* :-D

The new version doesn't cover a way to stop spamers? man, that sucks. Back to the drawing bored I guess...
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By Steve
#9018
Keith wrote:I hear good things about YaBB and phpBB... but I'd assume porting all this over to a new forums software package would make anyones head hurt. !+)

http://www.yabbforum.com/
http://www.phpbb.com/

Not sure what you mean - we are running phpBB! :-D

[edit]Duh, seems like you were faster. ;-)[/edit]
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By Steve
#9101
Keith wrote:Ooh, here's a way to put the nail in the coffin: ;-D

http://www.ideenwiki.de/index.php/Hauptseite

Too bad its in German... but a wiki no less!

I've thought about this, but I can't see it happen for inventions. Apart from the fact that ideenwiki seems to be doing exactly what the Creativity Pool has already been doing for the past five years...

The problem with inventions is that, for any company willing to develop and invest in it, they need to make $$$. You *can* build open source software and spread it on the internet without spending a single dime (other than your work power). With an invention, that's just not possible. Inventions need to be patentable in order to protect your investment - that's what patents are for. However, if you develop an invention in a public place like the internet, you lose the right to patent it. An idea-giver for the actual invention isn't a big problem in this respect, but a collablarate project that digs deeper into the inventing process and immediately publishes its work would obviously undermine their own findings and make them commercially unuseable. :-/
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By Keith
#9106
True... but:

"If people had understood how patents would be granted when most of today's ideas were invented and had taken out patents, the industry would be at a complete standstill today. ... The solution is patenting as much as we can. A future startup with no patents of its own will be forced to pay whatever price the giants choose to impose. That price might be high. Established companies have an interest in excluding future competitors." - Bill Gates


As we can see in this example from Mr. Gates, patenting everything is going to inevitably lead to our own standstill... The stagnation of knowledge, the killing of creativity and innovation as we know it.

But how can we get around that?

I agree, the wiki makes it easy to make and find and learn about things, but doesn't (like you said) "protect your investment". But there ARE sollutions to this problem other than just patenting everything in sight... and its just like the problem with Software Patents and the Net.... Their ARE licenses to protect objects as well as just "code" out there. Their ARE legal documents that stand up in court... that DO work. :)

A great example of this working in action today is the Linux Operating System.... ANYONE can work on it and modify it... and SELL it for $$$ in the stores (and charge for help support, etc) but the IDEA (code etc) must remain FREE to the intellectual world. :D

It spurs competition, it makes knowledge develop extremely fast, it makes the advancement of the human race a lot quicker than it is now under this opression from the old "law".

And thats just my $0.02
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By Steve
#9107
Keith, don't mix up copyright and patent law. Computer code is protected by copyright law, and like I said, it usually requires no other investment than the time spent in your basement. Time is definitely a serious investment, but it gets affordable once you split it amongst a number of volunteers. Plus, the code you write is *automatically* protected by copyright law - no further action required. That's actually why you can go down the GPL road at all, because the code was yours to start with - if it's not yours, you obviously can't grant a license to the general public.

Patent law is a totally different ballgame. Ideas are *not* protected by law, and you can't register an idea. What you can register is the implementation of that idea, provided that it includes something that is novel to prior art. Doing research on the implentation (and actually *implementing* it ;-) ) is the expensive part, hence the patentability. If after you paid for all the research, the next best guy could come and copy your invention - and this is the important part - you would think twice about investing into research in the first place! So that's what patents are made for - to enable progress, not to halt it.

Bottom line - open source / wiki stops where people suddenly have to invest hard cash. Product development costs money, and that will only be invested if there's a chance to get a return on that investment. Like it or not, it seems to be part of our reality. It may be fascinating to find an idea around it (and a challenge, too!), but I doubt you could just take open source development from the software world and stick it to tangible inventions.
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By Keith
#9114
(Bill Gates 1991: Patents exclude competitors, lead industry to standstill)

This was quoted by Fred Warshofsky in "The Patent Wars" of 1994. The text is from an internal memo written by Bill Gates to his staff. Part of has appeared in another Gates memos.


Yeah, same Bill... its interesting to see how people grow and change over the years and time. :) A great example is the Disney corporation. They jacked Steam Boat Bill and built their empire from the Public Domain of the Brothers Grimm... in other words: "You cannot do today to Dinsney inc. What Walt Disney did to the Brothers Grimm"... a little unfair don't you think?

Don't be an apologist :-B ... its wasn't 'always this way'... the laws that are being created (even now) are hindering our creativity and innovation. By buying into "patents" we limit ourselves and the world around us.

It is a DREAM to think if you patent something that you are garanteed to be a millionaire. The REALITY is that only large corporations can buy patents and make the money off the ideas of the little guy (meaning us).

That is the reason why I find the Creative Commons so interesting. They take what you come up with (ideas, inventions, art, written work, songs, video, pictures, etc) and allow people to share it under their own terms. ;-D

Now if someone has a genually GOOD idea, that is actually BUILDABLE by the average Joe... people can freely share that information and make it at home (sell it on the corner, whatever) without having to spend a lot of $$$ and time on something that might not even attract an investor or ever take off.

It can be that easy, when you skip the intermediaries :)

Just imagine a world where technology can spread like lightning, where the world can better itself by combining its mental energy... I think Thinkcycle.org and the Ideas Bank are great examples of people pulling together for the betterment of humanity. We are at a very exciting time in our history right now. The future (and past) are ours, its time we take it back. :)

... I apologize if I sound a bit snippy... but my father has stuggled his whole life when it comes to patents, I don't believe they work or help humanity in anyway other than the rich getting richer. And thats just my personal oppinion. ;)
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