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By PiesRround
#13551
Thanks again Bill, you are a fountain of knowledge on the subject at hand, probably others as well. That guess about my next question did however, turn out to be incorrect. As per your provided info, I am dealing with thousands of approximately 100,000 volt arcs. I think my next questions will be quite difficult. First, I can force all of the arcs to the same piece/length of wire/conductor. The question, Is the energy dissipated in the arc and pop? Or, is there an accumulation and current along the wire. Next question, if I close the distance between the wire and the generating surface, perhaps even to contact the generating surface. Can you hazard a guess as to my possible consequence?
I realize that real world tests may be needed to answer the second question. But I will know more after you respond.
Best Regards,
Tom.
By BILLT
#13559
You asked, "Is the energy dissipated in the arc and pop? Or, is there an accumulation and current along the wire?" The wire does not store or accumulate any energy. It is simply a conductor of or transfer device for the energy (current). If you draw an arc from the output of your static generator, then all of the energy stored in the generator is transferred, via the wires, into the arc. It is more or less instantaneously discharging your static generator. Of course there is a finite discharge time, but it likely only takes micro-second to completely discharge. The "pop" you hear is caused from the super heating of the air at the moment of the discharge. It literally is a small sonic boom due to the rate at which the air expands when super-heated like that.

Your second question was, "if I close the distance between the wire and the generating surface, perhaps even to contact the generating surface. Can you hazard a guess as to my possible consequence?" I don't know what you're using to generate your static electricity with, but if it's like most static generators (Van de Graff generator or Wimshurst machine), then the only concequence will be that the generator will no longer be allowed to built up a charge. This is typically of no concequence, as the moment you take this "short circuit" condition away, the charge will begin to build up again. Of course you must be careful not to get your own body into the pathway of these arc's, especially if you're grounded. If you're not grounded, then it may just hurt pretty badly, but if you are grounded, then you may not live through the experience.

Again, not knowing what you're using to generate your static electricity, I can't say for certain the amount of energy you are actually producing, but if it's only providing 100,000, then it's likely only a few Amps at best. So working out the formula for Amp-Seconds and realizing that lightning is around 50 to 100 microseconds, then I'd bet that your discharge is more than likely somewhere in the 10 microsecond region. So multiplying 10 microseconds by say 5 Amps (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here), you would arrive at about 0.00005 Coulombs. Bringing this back around to the original thread of charging batteries with static electricity, you can see that this is not even close to being able to do the job. This is 7.2 million times less energy than there is in a single AA battery.
#13563
And now you know why I posted my compliment PiesRound. There are carbon based units on CP that know far more than you or I will ever know and you need to come to grips with that. You and I are incredibly ignorant compared to the top million brains in the world and the only thing you proved with your previous comment to me is that I know that and you don't, therefore, you've divulged your age, IQ, and possibly your level of intoxication. A hint from an elder; that's almost always a mistake you'll regret.
By Rambo-Commando
#14102
A). Assuming I can generate static electricity amounts previously unknown considering energy levels needed to create said amounts. What have I got?
B). Is there a ratio of static electricity created, to alternating current used to create it, that I can use to measure my proposition?


this is an interesting discussion. The easiest way to understand and VISUALIZE electricity is to think of it as WATER.

now, STATIC electricity is just like a body of water, CONTAINED, and not moving at a certain altitude (ex: glass of water on a table).

a DC current is like water RUNNING in a pipeline-circuit, propelled by a pump ( equivalent to a battery or generator)

an AC current is again like watter in a circuit but the water doesn't run, it just goes back and forth using the pump.

now AIR in a room has static electricity, yes. but the entire room has the SAME charge. in water terms, its like having a water-wheel in a pool, and trying to make the wheel turn. the pool might me on top of mount everest (ie: high electric charge), but the wheel will still not turn.

for the "WHEEL" to turn you need a difference between your charges (this is called electric potential, measured in VOLTS). in other words, you need two different altitudes for your body of water. then the water may flow from the higher altitude, to the lower altitude, causing a CURRENT, and turning your wheel.

when we charge our batteries, it's equivalent to using a pump (electric outlet) to pump water up a reservoir of water at a higher altitude, so it may be used to turn our wheels (cellphone) later on when we need it.

as for the PERPETUAL MOTION machine, it is physically impossible for the same reason that your hot coffee gets colder in a colder room, and not the other way around. or if you shine light on a light bulb, it will not generate electricity. it's called the second law of thermodynamics, and it says that all processes have a direction. you can read more about this topic.
just remember, you can NEVER get more than what you give in a Closed System. this is how nature is, and this is why the patenting office has stopped receiving designs that claim to be perpetually sustained.

I hope this post cleared things up ;-)
User avatar
By AaronBurns
#14150
I ponder this seemingly impossible task of creating a model producing usable output.
I scrapped former thinking and realized that static would not produce what we want.
If we couple the physical side of it with a highly combustable gas from flammable liquids we can simply stream a very small amount of flammable fumes passed by two static charged materials scaping between each other then the static spark would ignite the fumes with a very small amount of any kind of electric output producing at least some kind of energy.
I think this would be the ultimate pilot light. Ha!
I would like to hear about building the ultimate static spark machine and what you think it would best be used for and how.
Please respond.
Insults and knowledge above mine Wanted! Ha!
:* :*
By Pir8Pete
#19831
Hi Im a newb at all this.
However I have an idea for static power generation using wind.
Plate collectors have been tried in the past, but they are flat and could be made more efficient if they were made 3 dimensional. Can a plate covered with hair like static collectors that could be incorporated with a diode in each hair be made?
This would enable wind generators to have no moving parts.
By jennydinc
#20404
That is a good idea for collecting the electricity from the air while operating a welding machine. The static electric could charge into the air while arcing the welding rod.
By JadeSilver
#23437
Hello Folks,

This must be one of the longest running forums as it has been going on since 2004. I came accross this accidentally and wish to add some ideas and ask the creator of the post not to be discouraged by things that are not possible TODAY, but may be possible in the days or years to come.

Even perpetual motion, which gives the illusion of being possible in the ubiquitious dipping stork that 'drinks' forever from a bowl of water that does not get depleted (using capillary action?).

The originator mentioned two ideas that had not been developed back in 2007, one about charging a battery without joining contacts. This is very much possible today through inductive charging. My son had an electric toothbrush about two years ago (2010) that sat on a charging pad to get recharged. Recently, Rolls Royce advertised the same system for their first ever Electric Car, a charging pad in the garage floor where the car is parked, that would recharge its HUGE batteries within about four hours. I belive these use toroidal magnets to force induction charging. I think there is a similar pad now for a brand of mobile phone as well.

The second is about capacitors for storing electric charge. With the recent development of UltraCapacitors (do a google search), most of the disadvantages of the old fashioned plate capacitors have been overcome, They recharge almost instantly and are able to deliver their charges gradually, just like a battery. Some of them use a liquid to store the charge. In fact, the Holden Motor Car Company of Australia produced a working model of an electric car using ultracapacitors instead of standard batteries, that propelled their rather large full six-seater car for about 80 km at speeds and acceleration much greater than the standard 5.0 litre V8 model.

These two developments alone make the original writer's concept more realistic. Someone mentioned windmills and plates for creating static electricity. That seems to have considerable potential. The only problem being how to convert large amounts of Voltage into useable current. Perhaps a single installation will be able to generate only a small amount of current, but given the possibility of multiplicity of units, and using perpetual winds, something may be possible.

I sincerely hope that this forum continues to function as it has been quite interesting reading for a layman such as I who does not have a clue about Static Electricity. If we don't dream of the impossible, then we will cease to be inventive.
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