Have a brilliant theory that the world isn't ready for yet? Here's the place to strand it. Of course, your theory needs to be airtight.
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By Steve
#2829
Every once in a while, clover undergoes natural mutation. The result is a higher number of leaves, in most cases what we call a four-leaved clover. Four-leaved clover is superior in every aspect, with its fourth leaf it can do +33% more photosynthesis, thus giving it the power to get stronger, grow higher and deprive their inferior, three-leaved neighbors of some of the sunlight.

In the history of evolution, superior mutations have always replaced their inferior predecessors over time. So why doesn't it happen with clover? The answer is simple: man. Man believes that four-leaved clover will bring luck, so every time a human finds a four-leaved clover, he will weed it out and take it home, thus depriving it of the chance of reproduction. By doing this, man is neutralizing the evolutionary advantage of four-leaved clover. Once again, man is interfering with the rules of nature and changing the face of our planet for generations to come!
By Stig Bakke's brother Stig
#2831
So if Mother Nature were really on the ball, she'd go straight to five-leaf clovers, and get us to believe they're unlucky... ;-)
By stephan d
#3042
Please don't tell me that you believe in Darwins grandfathers argument Steve. C. Darwin didn't believe it. It was just a good argument. If you do/did, ask yourself if any creature has gotten stronger or weaker from mutation. I axcept theories when the're proven. Show me any proof, and I'll believe in evolution, until then I see just how natural selection works and that proof is all around and within us. Sorry for being without manners, but I detest a lie (men from monkies-ha-ha)
Last edited by stephan d on Thu Oct 09, 2003 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By luckycooky
#3255
i do actually believe in darwins theories, as improbable as they sound. natural selection and evolution. is it so difficult to blieve. have you not seen space oddesey 2001? the bit where the monkey/ape whatever first uses a tool, amazing. anyway, also suggest you read the origin of species before you denounce that particular theory. if you already have and dismiss it fine i'm not trying to push my views on you, just saying that from the first slime (when there was only slime) to the next organic life and so on, it is all a form of evolution. we all started off from one life form, which split and tried to outgrow itself and achieve etc etc. we just happen to be the most dominant one on our planet today. or maybe other species know the answer, we just can't hear them. there's an idea for the site. a dog and cat language translator!!! :-D
By stephan d
#3259
I suppose you believe that everyone at one time believed that the earth is flat. That's not true either, only some isolated ignorat european dim-wits entertained the notion and all their inbred cousins preached it adamantly. Scientific theories require proof to be proven.
By deeparch
#5580
Well lets see which is easier to believe- a long, slow process of small changes leading to the development of new lifeforms, or some bearded guy thinking this up in six days. I'm going to pick the slow train on this one.
Now on to the four-leafed clover. Assuming that the development of four leaves vs three is a genetic variation, and that the extra leaf actually adds to the net energy of the plant rather than detracting by the excess energy required to grow the extra "leaf" it still doesn't mean that this is a beneficial mutation that provides reproductive advantage. It is the ability to make an adaptation more common by reproductive success that make a trait dominate a species rather than an advantage to a particular individual.
By jincubus
#6598
I can't wait until religion gets disproven somehow. On that day I will run through the town naked. On a side note I am going to make another religion. This religion is that the life we see is a massivly online multiplayer sims game. There are bigger real forms of us. Everything you say and do is in control of some guy/girl. You just have to hope that your player isn't one of those sadistic sims players who puts you in the pool and removes the ladder...
#9555
Look at it from another angle. There was a genetic mutation that allows for a fourth leaf correct? So if you look at what the plant gains from that extra leaf you'll see that it is negligable compared to the rest of the plant for it is continually adding sets of three when it is growing. I hope you don't assume the three leaves make up the entire plant and the extra leaf makes it 33% better. It is made up of many sets. My point is that the reason it does not mutate to be an all four leaf plant is because the fourth leaf on an individual, small portion of the plant does not add enough benifit to the whole to be considered by the genes to be benificial and added as a permanant change. It is a fluke, like a frekle on your body. It's there, there's no good reason for it and it does no real harm or good by any measuarble means.
Tell me your thoughts on this view.
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By Steve
#9557
C-Chamberlain wrote:I hope you don't assume the three leaves make up the entire plant and the extra leaf makes it 33% better. It is made up of many sets. My point is that the reason it does not mutate to be an all four leaf plant is because the fourth leaf on an individual, small portion of the plant does not add enough benifit to the whole to be considered by the genes to be benificial and added as a permanant change.

My point is - how can you know? Four-leaved clover has never been tested in a fair setting (like a human-free planet)! :-D
By C-Chamberlain
#9559
Sadly we don't and can't know that answer for we've already meddled in the plant's life. All we can do is try to find a place that is the LEAST disturbed and take a sampling there. If they have turned into a new variety with more than three leaves on average then there is the answer. If not, then that leads toward my "fluke" theory.
Good to bounce heavy thinking around with someone once in a while. thank you.
-Chris
By enigmanuma
#9870
It is possible that the time it takes the clovers to evolve is far greater than our perception of mutations. For instance... we witness animal mutation in a short period as in dogs where they are force mutated (breeding). We tend to think of all things as we see others, but, plants have changed slowly over millions of years. So, it may be possible in thousands or so years the majority of clovers will begin to have 4 leaves. We are possibly only witnessing the beginning of a change.

Also...

I'm amazed that anyone that can read and write, still believes in the white bearded wizard theory. Maybe religion is just part of our evolutionary journey. lol
By JackOfSomeTrades
#12265
I've read quite a few times that radon gas seeping through the earth from naturally depleting uranium is what caused the four leaf clover phenomenon. To try to logically explain religion is to miss the point entirely. Religion and science sadly are more about belief than logic and to argue each's points won't actually change how we live our lives, unless of course you create a government that enforces the doctrines of either...
By CompulsiveInnovator
#21762
Blaming humans for the extinction of the four leafed clover. Is going out on a bit of a limb, wouldn't you say? Or has there been an influx of "four leafed clover hunters" that I am not aware of?

Steve wrote:Every once in a while, clover undergoes natural mutation. The result is a higher number of leaves, in most cases what we call a four-leaved clover. Four-leaved clover is superior in every aspect, with its fourth leaf it can do +33% more photosynthesis, thus giving it the power to get stronger, grow higher and deprive their inferior, three-leaved neighbors of some of the sunlight.

In the history of evolution, superior mutations have always replaced their inferior predecessors over time. So why doesn't it happen with clover? The answer is simple: man. Man believes that four-leaved clover will bring luck, so every time a human finds a four-leaved clover, he will weed it out and take it home, thus depriving it of the chance of reproduction. By doing this, man is neutralizing the evolutionary advantage of four-leaved clover. Once again, man is interfering with the rules of nature and changing the face of our planet for generations to come!
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