The main tank, brimful with ideas. Enjoy them, discuss them, take them. - Of course, this is also the #1 place for new submissions!
By Killrb64
#20152
Yeah, yeah. That's real nice if you've got a few hundred thou to invest, but what about a small home or ranch size unit.
By littlewop
#20539
the large array is close to this idea but the difference is THERE ARE NO MAGNIFYING GLASSES, they are using flat mirrors, big difference. Dan I have been looking for awile and havnt found magnifiers used. It seemes so much better to magnify the heat instead of magnifying the collectors(like in the california array) but there must be some reasons for this. I saw you can make a mini array like the Ca. one using cheap milar(cd stuff) this guy made his whole thing for less than $2000 equiped with tracking system for panels (2 foot strips on cheap plywood) the tracking was made with a watch and bike parts.
By jhonebhrestom
#20634
Do you think 20% efficiency is beyond the realms of possibility with a well designed system. Coal fired power stations manage 30-35%.
Anyway, the energy from the sun is free and non-polluting, so it doesn't matter that much.I had done one experiment by using the microscopic lens beam focused on to paper thats get burned.I learned that solar is the massive heater.
By Rishi
#20638
jhonebhrestom wrote:Do you think 20% efficiency is beyond the realms of possibility with a well designed system. Coal fired power stations manage 30-35%.
Anyway, the energy from the sun is free and non-polluting, so it doesn't matter that much.I had done one experiment by using the microscopic lens beam focused on to paper thats get burned.I learned that solar is the massive heater.

Solar thermal collectors can have up to 70% efficiency. The energy is free. However, there are hidden dimensions that spoil the picture somewhat.

Fortune magazine published a report in the late sixties, which showed that the total energy collected by thermal collectors in the lifetime of the equipment was LESS than the energy that was consumed in producing the materials and manufacturing the equipment.

Unless we look at the total picture, solar energy will remain just that much farther away.
rishi
By ABBG
#20640
I don't think the equipment has to be expensive. For example a cheap 100ft green plastic hose full of water in a garden can produce enough hot water, many days in an English garden during the Summer months - enough for a hot bath! If it's pumped at speed through a well insulated water tank, additional hot water can be produced and saved for later evening use, even more perhaps using a clear or black hosepipe?
Many waste materials can be collected and recycled to produce additional equipment - a lot more basic research should be organised to look into private use of the sun's energy and anything else that is at present free and should be utilised to provide additional and later, free energy in our homes.
By Rishi
#20643
I installed a solar water heater three years back. With 300 days/year sunlight in the tropics we do not use electricity for this purpose. Paid about 500 Euro for it.

The trouble is when large scale electricity is the goal.

At individual level, I agree that one should use solar at least for heating. But even here, the cost of the system and materials consumption have to be assessed.

The Japanese have developed a very basic solar heater. It is just a black polyethylene bag with just one tube connected. Since the bag is soft it remains collapsed. This is just kept on the roof. No glass sheet on top or anything of that sort. The re-radiation losses are a given. Efficiency will be lower and accepted.One fills it by inflating with water, which is left to heat up. Later the tube is opened to let out the heated water. Minimal cost at some inconvenience. Probably recycled poly ethylene may be usable.
By littlewop
#20663
anyone else have an idea for builable solar steam generator , For real are we so lame that we must order an solar bag to fill up with water to heat water in the sun, I think I have glass available and can find a tank to incase in that. I can go to the hardware store and figure out all by myself how to pipe it into the house using gravity. This is not rocket science but some of us seem to think it is so complicated that it is beyond doing. If we can come up with shared ideas for this and through trial and error we can do this. I know they point a heat gathering sourse ( The mirrors) at the heating chamber,then the turbines turn from the steam pressure ( pretty simple) they now have a multimillion dollar contract in China for this not so genious idea.. But I would like to scale it down for single family use. Can anyone help?? we would need some pratical products that are availabe to purchase and put it together to test then when needed it can be used immediatly or used now if wanted although most people would probly purchase then put away till needed. It would be popular and profitable!
By Rishi
#20673
littlewop wrote: I know they point a heat gathering sourse ( The mirrors) at the heating chamber,then the turbines turn from the steam pressure ( pretty simple). But I would like to scale it down for single family use.

Even in the tropics, the steam generated/sq.m. collector area for a full day of clear sun in summer will be about 3KWhr. Small turbines may get up to 40% efficiency, which means about 1.2KWHr electric power. If this is stored in a battery there will be a further loss of efficiency.

One can work out the size needed for any meaningful power for home use. For this application photovoltaics are still the best.
By littlewop
#20679
where did you get the 35KWH ? rishi what turbine size and array are you talking about? So I shouldnt even ask about this, acording to you it won't be worth $400. to try to make a backyard array. I must be at the wrong website I didn't know I would be shut down before anybody had a chance to put together any ideas. I saw one guy(discovery channel) with an array in his backyard supplying 4 homes but I don't know any specs.So I ask here and get shut down.He used Mylar sheets and a steam generator it used about 200 square feet of room. Didnt any else see this? I did not see how large the steam tank was .
By Rishi
#20680
littlewop wrote:where did you get the 35KWH ? rishi what turbine size and array are you talking about? So I shouldnt even ask about this, acording to you it won't be worth $400. to try to make a backyard array. I must be at the wrong website I didn't know I would be shut down before anybody had a chance to put together any ideas. I saw one guy(discovery channel) with an array in his backyard supplying 4 homes but I don't know any specs.So I ask here and get shut down.He used Mylar sheets and a steam generator it used about 200 square feet of room. Didnt any else see this? I did not see how large the steam tank was .


There is no question of shutting out ideas. 200 sqft collector area can give about 25 to 30 KWHr energy/day. High pressure steam tank working @ > 15 psi and a volume >5 gallons will attract provisions of the ASME boiler code. I am not saying it is not possible. Just pointing out the costs involved in a backyard steam turbine.
May be you can consider a closed circuit organic fluid boiling at less than 100 C. You may be able to make everything smaller. No concentrators needed.
By littlewop
#20681
When you say 25- 30 KWH in what way are you generating this or are you collecting it ? I do know that the mylar collecters/concentrators would burn the skin if you went up near the boiler. the boiler I didnt catch anything about but it sent its steam power to another location on the ground where it turnred the generator. The whole thing was running 4 homes and only cost 2000 including running wires to all homes. I really need to find that guy.
By Rishi
#20700
littlewop wrote:When you say 25- 30 KWH in what way are you generating this or are you collecting it ?


The figure represents the maximum electric power that can be realized using thermal power that can be collected for a 200 sqft area of collector on a clear day in the tropics. That is what a generator can be expected to produce. I had done some work in this area years back and this was the kind of collection efficiencies that could be realized. I have mutiplied our data on heat collection achieved by the efficiency of steam generators and gave the figure of 25 - 30 KWHr.

I have not used this method to produce electric power.

rishi
By ABBG
#20836
OCTOMAN80@MAC.COM wrote:HI DAN: I HAVE A N OCTAGON HOME WITH A SKYLIGHT IN THE CENTER OF A 12' OCTAGON UTILITY ROOM. MY DREAN IS A NEAR ZERO HOME WITH NO ROOF OR YARD GARBAGE. I HAVE THIS MODELED TO ACHIEVE NEAR ZERO WITH NO ATTACHMENT TO THE ELECTRICAL GRID. I WANT TO PUT THE FROSTING ON THE CAKE WITH AN ARRAY OF MAGNIFYING GLASSES ARRANGED ON AN ARC BAND SHAPED TO THE PARTICULAR LATITUDE AND HINGED TO PIVOT, FOLLOWING THE SUNS MOVEMENT FROM NORTH TO SOUTH. THIS WOULD HEAT WATER OR GENERATE STEAM IN AN INSULATED TANK IN THE CENTER OF THE UTILITY ROOM.. I WELCOME SOLUTIONS. I AM BUILDING THIS HOME NOW. TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE. I AM A SERVANT OF MANKIND & WISH TO SHARE IDEAS.

CURTIS L. BIGGAR, ARCHITECT

Curtis - I wonder have you spelt your name correctly? I really would like to help with spell checking as errors are diverting me from the more important points that you are making - I am getting the gist but it is quite a challenge to guess some of the words you are utilising! Kind regards & good luck with your free heating in your home........................... :-/
By buzzlock
#24774
    General Stuff Needed
  • Two to four telescoping long sticks or polls
  • One sheet of slightly larger 2 ft x 2 ft or 4 ft x 4 ft window clear Visqueen
  • 2 ft x 2 ft or 4 ft x 4ft wood picture like frame
  • 3 Gal Water
  • Cast Iron Tank with water and Two steam piston outlets
  • One electric generator adapted with steam pistons


Stretch Visqueen tightly across wood picture like frame and staple. Over lapping and folding Visqueen tightly around frame is recommended. Staple all four edges keeping Visqueen as taunt as possible without tearing Visqueen. Lay wood frame flat on surface and attach long telescoping polls to wood frame to make a table with the Visqueen as the table top and the long polls as the tables legs. Flip your ready made table up right and fill top 3/4 full of water. Place cast iron tank with water in path of focused magnification point as sun rays bend from the water bubble formed on top of your Visqueen table top as a very powerful magnifying glass to melt all coins, glass, and water to steam in seconds as long as the sun is shining over head.
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